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In this question, a moderator has repeatedly claimed, including in comments and the answer he posted, that Russia is safe for Westerners.

Not only this is factually not true, but the moderator repeatedly deleted my comments pointing out that he's relying on false Russian propaganda, even linking such propaganda as a source to his answer. Imagine any other user saying "So I would disregard the travel warnings and go" when asked whether it is OK to go to a place where my government says I shouldn't.

Proper treatment of this question would be to close it as off topic, but the moderator has a clear pro-Russian bias and uses this question to promote pro-Russian propaganda.

This is not the first time that a moderator used the platform to further his own agenda at the expense of other users. He even forced me out of the platform for a while when I dared to challenge his relentless anti-vax propaganda that endangered and continues to endanger millions. Now he's pushing pro-Russian propaganda.

Please remove this user from the list of moderators, he's clearly unable to perform the duties reliably.

From the Oxford dictionary:

prop·a·gan·da /ˌpräpəˈɡandə/ noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

Wikipedia for "Propaganda".

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    For that answer (and the corresponding comments) I do disagree with the opinion and consider it misleading and naive. This question will, however, not lead to any result unless you list the questions/answers where this has happened in the past.
    – Mark Johnson
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:55
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    @MarkJohnson I'll be keeping track now. I'm sure others have more examples to add as well.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:57
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    wow, I do not miss being a mod :/ popcorn.gif ;) You're welcome to submit a complaint about him to Stackoverflow. But as a reasonably? objective observer, all that seems to be occurring is a disagreement. Abusing and propaganda? Nope. Voting to close as 1) not a question and 2) opinion based.
    – Mark Mayo
    Commented Aug 13, 2022 at 3:15

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I'll preface this by saying I've had my disputes with the moderator in the past (including commenting on the very answer you're complaining about that his reasoning is "ridiculous"). But:

Not only this is factually not true, but the moderator repeatedly deleted my comments pointing out that he's relying on false Russian propaganda, even linking such propaganda as a source to his answer.

let's be clear here because there's propaganda and there's propaganda. The link you're complaining about in his answer is a report on government statistics about how many foreigners visited Crimea. Yes, you can question whether the numbers are entirely accurate, but it's not exactly "all hail Putin, death to the Ukrainian nazi regime".

Imagine any other user saying "So I would disregard the travel warnings and go" when asked whether it is OK to go to a place where my government says I shouldn't.

I imagine they would be downvoted, just as this answer is. Beyond that, not sure what you expect.

Proper treatment of this question would be to close it as off topic, but the moderator has a clear pro-Russian bias and uses this question to promote pro-Russian propaganda

[...]

Now he's pushing pro-Russian propaganda.

Again, calling the link "pro-Russian propaganda" without being specific about what it actually says is, at best, correct on a technicality. I have absolutely no doubt you know what the words "pro-Russian propaganda" bring to mind in the current climate with the war in Ukraine, and that it absolutely is not government statistics about tourist nationalities in Crimea published in 2019.

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  • prop·a·gan·da /ˌpräpəˈɡandə/ noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.. That's the dictionary definition. Distributing Russian-sourced, likely falsified, statistics to encourage people to go to Russia despite explicit warnings and clear evidence of danger - definitely matches. Propaganda is not "all hail Putin". Propaganda is subtly substituting facts with alternative facts to create a narrative. Take a look at Fox News, if you're in the US. Or lenta.ru.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:27
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    I know what propaganda is, thank you very much. "All hail Putin" was obviously an absurd exaggerated example. I refer you to my previous statements that there are different kinds of propaganda, and that you must know perfectly well that when you publicly accuse somebody of "pushing pro-Russian propaganda" the crowd around you doesn't hear "statistics of questionable accuracy about tourist nationalities".
    – Chris H
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:33
  • You're proving my point. I'm pointing out the fact that the moderator is pushing propaganda exactly because he's doing it in a subtle enough way to it appear "informative statistics". That's how propaganda works. It's not pompous slogans, it's subtle lies, elaborate net of "alternative facts", and "independent sources" that are neither independent nor sources, and instead rely on the government supplied misinformation. Which is exactly what the moderator is doing.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:36
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    The answer literally says "according to government statistics", there is no pretence of this being an independent source. If you want to engage with my point that your characterisation is technically correct but intellectually dishonest, by all means do so. I do not need to see another definition of propaganda, I already know what propaganda is and haven't at any point been arguing the source isn't it.
    – Chris H
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:44
  • Chris, with your edit - are you trying to claim that Russian attempts to legitimize Crimea annexation in 2019 were somehow more trustworthy than they're now?
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:55
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    Of course not. I'm entirely opposed to the Russian occupation of Ukrainian territory (and for the avoidance of doubt, yes I'm including Crimea as Ukrainian territory). The purpose of the edit is to be more explicit about what the content of the link is.
    – Chris H
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:00
  • But you seem to imply that it doesn't seem to be something Russians would want to falsify, while to me it clearly is. Of course they'll want to show Westerners come to Crimea and enjoy it, they want to show that Westerners accept it as part of Russia. Surely there will be no danger for Westerners to go there, on the contrary - they'll probably subsidize tours for Westerners to the best tourist spots there for the same reason. It doesn't mean that Russia as a whole is safe, especially not for people who do not intend to collaborate with the regime (even if they don't intend to fight it either)
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:03
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    @littleadv I'm implying nothing of the sort. I've been pretty explicit about what I'm saying: that it's a long way from what people are likely to understand by your words, and that I therefore consider your phrasing intellectually dishonest despite being technically correct. I have repeatedly agreed with you that Russian government statistics should not be taken at face value.
    – Chris H
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:17
  • I really don't understand what you mean by "intellectually dishonest", but technically correct, as we all know, is the best kind of correct. The fact that people don't understand what propaganda is shouldn't deter me from calling it out when I see it. Maybe, just maybe, people will learn.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:22
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    @littleadv You are overstating the case is,I believe, what he means and I agree.
    – Mark Johnson
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:27
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Proper treatment of this question would be to close it as off topic

Safety is on topic. There's even a tag for that.

Not only this is factually not true

Share your statistics in some answer to that question, and prove they're incorrect.

Imagine any other user saying "So I would disregard the travel warnings and go" when asked whether it is OK to go to a place where my government says I shouldn't.

I've done that, so I can imagine. Travel warnings can be overly pessimistic/negative, e.g. during Covid. I have no idea about Russia. But I just read https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/wizz-air-russia-flights-ukraine/index.html:

The airline is resuming its operation to Moscow to meet travel demand for passengers wishing to fly to and from Russia from the UAE capital. All UAE national airlines are currently operating direct flights to Russia."

So it sounds like some people are flying to Russia.

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  • When you're dealing with a country that excels in disinformation and misinformation, using their sources as "statistics" is dubious at best, and shows the bias in this case. As to "I've done that", I'm not even trying to conceal the fact that I think you're a troll and a menace and are abusing this network to get some kind of pleasure. So honestly, you saying "I've done that" only goes to reinforce my point.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:07
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    @littleadv you can use non-Russian sources for the statistics.
    – Franck Dernoncourt
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:21
  • I'm not sure if you're trolling me or misunderstood, but I'll clarify: it is the moderator who's using Russian governmental sources for statistics, not me.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:40
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    @littleadv your can share your statistics from non-Russian sources in some answer to that question, and prove they're incorrect.
    – Franck Dernoncourt
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:47
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    I don't need to prove Russian statistics are incorrect. They're Russian statistics, they show what Russia wants them to show. I'm not sure what is the point you're making, are you claiming that every time someone uses a Russian governmental information source I must personally disprove that specific piece of information to be able to claim that Russian information is not trustworthy? No, it is a well-established fact that dictatorial governments with no freedom of press cannot be trustworthy providers of information.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:53
  • If you or the moderator want to show that the numbers posted are correct - feel free to provide an independent and reliable source.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 5:53
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    @littleadv you wrote "the moderator has repeatedly claimed, including in comments and the answer he posted, that Russia is safe for Westerners. Not only this is factually not true". I replied: Share your statistics in some answer to that question to support your claim "this is factually not true."
    – Franck Dernoncourt
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:06
  • The moderator provided a couple of examples himself.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:07
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    @littleadv statistics
    – Franck Dernoncourt
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:11
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    random noises and empty words
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:12
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    I said he's factually incorrect and referred to said facts. You claim his statistics is trustworthy - you prove it. I'm done with taking your bait.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:15
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    @littleadv I'll let you enjoy making unsupported claims. The 1 or 2 mentioned incidents don't make an entire country unsafe.
    – Franck Dernoncourt
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 6:46
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    @littleadv do you not trust U.K. statistics about the U.K. because they “show what the U.K. wants them to say”? Or are you just being bias against Russia with no proof?
    – Tim
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 14:33
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    @Tim The UK does have a balanced political system and a free press that keep the checks and the balances needed to be able to trust the governmental information. Russia doesn't. So yes, I do trust the UK statistics about the UK, because if they lie they'll be called out for lying by the investigative reporters and the political opposition.
    – littleadv
    Commented Aug 9, 2022 at 16:35
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If any answer asserting that "Russia is safe" is "pro-Russian propaganda", then that statement is in itself "pro-Ukrainian propaganda". And down that path lies madness.

At the end of the day, "safety" is not binary, but a continuum. Is Russia more dangerous than some other countries? Yes. Is Russia less dangerous than some other countries? Also yes. Does having the wrong skin color, passport or itinerary increase your risk? Also yes. Which is why at the end of the day, every visitor has to judge the risk themselves, and the original question was correctly closed as "opinion-based" because it was too vague to be useful.

(And in case it matters, I most recently visited Russia in 2018 and the scariest thing I encountered was a drunk minibus driver, but I do not intend to return until Putin is out of power.)

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  • This is a false equivalency. Criticizing Russia doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Ukraine. Claiming that Russia is safe for Westerners ever is wrong, now there are just more reasons for concerns. Russia has never been safe for Westerners.
    – littleadv
    Commented Sep 7, 2022 at 0:04
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I am Bella_Blue, a Community Manager with the Trust & Safety team. While Meta is a place to discuss behaviors, including moderator actions, it is not the place to call moderators or any user out by name. We consider that targeted, and it is not allowed. We want to reserve Meta for part of the escalation process that surrounds the discussion of repetitive problematic behavior. I have edited your question to reflect that.

However, I want to give you an avenue for your concerns. You are more than welcome to report any moderator action directly to Community Managers by utilizing our Contact Us link, and a Community Manager will look into the circumstances of the situation and get back to you. Hope this helps.

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